Practically rules of The Stoic Club could go this conclusion that there is only one rule: Don’t argue and explain being a Stoic to anyone, just be one.
I would include the original "Fight Club Rule" that we should not speak about Stoicism. When I discovered the Stoics, I became very vocal about their teachings (just like a "born-again" christian...) . I even bought books (Yours too, Massimo) to my close relative ... in a naive hope that these concepts and ideas would extinguish a little bit of his anger issues and lifelong depression. I was really-really wrong... He is a very intellectual and well read person, but instead of really internalizing the Stoics' or Socrates's ideas, he totally turned them inside-out, cherry-picked some ideas and used them to justify his ongoing anger toward certain individuals. Nowadays he really likes to compare himself to Socrates, or Seneca in such a ways that I would consider "infuriating blasphemy".... I have to consciously keep my anger in check when he talks about them in any context... Now it is clear to me, that he never reads anything to learn something, but to conform, and strengthen his already formed worldview.
I have an other close friend who is also highly intelligent and susceptible to philosophy. I told him about Stoicism too, and sent him some articles. He considered this very limited amount of information enough to be "reconstruct" the whole Stoicism. He often criticize Stoicism on the shallow level of the wikipedia, and not on the level of the "John Sellars book". (I mean, I criticize Jordan Peterson after watching 20-30 hours of him talking about stuff...).
Since the ancient Stoics did not ask us to proselytize, and there is no "eternal pressure" to get more and more people into Stoicism, I would add the rule that "Don't speak about Stoicism, unless someone explicitly ask you."
Deed before creed - a very pithy comment by Adler to remind us that behaviour speaks much louder than words. We are all fallible & our espoused values are not always obvious in our enacted values. Going quietly about our Stoic practice is a practice in itself :)
Thank you for this. It is so easy to get sidetracked by our social motives for appearance and influence when trying to live virtuously. I’m thinking that the way I have tried to apply these rules is to ask myself “am I actually being helpful to someone here?” The tricky part is that it’s so easy to rationalize that we’re being helpful. That’s where it seems to me thinking through this proposal may help.
Thank you so much for this, it is something I really needed to hear. It made me realize how often I do some of these things, especially with my spouse and child, under the guise of trying to be helpful. I need to learn to just listen sometimes, and not immediately jump in and try to solve everyone's problems, because sometimes (perhaps most of the time) all they really want is someone to commiserate with them
Also of relevance is Epictetus, Enchiridion, 46: "On no occasion call yourself a philosopher, and do not, for the most part, talk among laymen about your philosophic principles, but do what follows from your principles. For example, at a banquet do not say how people ought to eat, but eat as a man ought. For remember how Socrates had so completely eliminated the thought of ostentation, that people came to him when they wanted him to introduce them to philosophers, and he used to bring them along. So well did he submit to being overlooked. And if talk about some philosophic principle arises among laymen, keep silence for the most part, for there is great danger that you will spew up immediately what you have not digested. So when a man tells you that you know nothing, and you, like Socrates, are not hurt, then rest assured that you are making a beginning with the business you have undertaken. For sheep, too, do not bring their fodder to the shepherds and show how much they have eaten, but they digest their food within them, and on the outside produce wool and milk. And so do you, therefore, make no display to the laymen of your philosophical principles, but let them see the results which come from these principles when digested."
Your comments on deeds are a welcome reminder that even small deeds matter. Every letter (or essay) written, every few encouraging words to a stranger, every few dollars offered, has the power make a difference in one,or more, person’s life. Put another way, saying “I can’t do anything about that” is, in most cases, inaccurate. Re Ethical Culture, “deed before creed” remains a virtuous aspiration, not necessarily a lived practice. Thinking pause. Is their a parallel Stoic motto/slogan?
I like it! But rule 2 makes me wonder about the folks who intentionally misuse Stoicism to present an antithetical philosophy. Calling out these folks seems useful particularly to clarify for folks just starting their journey
Practically rules of The Stoic Club could go this conclusion that there is only one rule: Don’t argue and explain being a Stoic to anyone, just be one.
I would include the original "Fight Club Rule" that we should not speak about Stoicism. When I discovered the Stoics, I became very vocal about their teachings (just like a "born-again" christian...) . I even bought books (Yours too, Massimo) to my close relative ... in a naive hope that these concepts and ideas would extinguish a little bit of his anger issues and lifelong depression. I was really-really wrong... He is a very intellectual and well read person, but instead of really internalizing the Stoics' or Socrates's ideas, he totally turned them inside-out, cherry-picked some ideas and used them to justify his ongoing anger toward certain individuals. Nowadays he really likes to compare himself to Socrates, or Seneca in such a ways that I would consider "infuriating blasphemy".... I have to consciously keep my anger in check when he talks about them in any context... Now it is clear to me, that he never reads anything to learn something, but to conform, and strengthen his already formed worldview.
I have an other close friend who is also highly intelligent and susceptible to philosophy. I told him about Stoicism too, and sent him some articles. He considered this very limited amount of information enough to be "reconstruct" the whole Stoicism. He often criticize Stoicism on the shallow level of the wikipedia, and not on the level of the "John Sellars book". (I mean, I criticize Jordan Peterson after watching 20-30 hours of him talking about stuff...).
Since the ancient Stoics did not ask us to proselytize, and there is no "eternal pressure" to get more and more people into Stoicism, I would add the rule that "Don't speak about Stoicism, unless someone explicitly ask you."
Deed before creed - a very pithy comment by Adler to remind us that behaviour speaks much louder than words. We are all fallible & our espoused values are not always obvious in our enacted values. Going quietly about our Stoic practice is a practice in itself :)
Thank you for this. It is so easy to get sidetracked by our social motives for appearance and influence when trying to live virtuously. I’m thinking that the way I have tried to apply these rules is to ask myself “am I actually being helpful to someone here?” The tricky part is that it’s so easy to rationalize that we’re being helpful. That’s where it seems to me thinking through this proposal may help.
I wouldn't call it 'A Modest Proposal'. That title has already been taken.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm
Thank you so much for this, it is something I really needed to hear. It made me realize how often I do some of these things, especially with my spouse and child, under the guise of trying to be helpful. I need to learn to just listen sometimes, and not immediately jump in and try to solve everyone's problems, because sometimes (perhaps most of the time) all they really want is someone to commiserate with them
Also of relevance is Epictetus, Enchiridion, 46: "On no occasion call yourself a philosopher, and do not, for the most part, talk among laymen about your philosophic principles, but do what follows from your principles. For example, at a banquet do not say how people ought to eat, but eat as a man ought. For remember how Socrates had so completely eliminated the thought of ostentation, that people came to him when they wanted him to introduce them to philosophers, and he used to bring them along. So well did he submit to being overlooked. And if talk about some philosophic principle arises among laymen, keep silence for the most part, for there is great danger that you will spew up immediately what you have not digested. So when a man tells you that you know nothing, and you, like Socrates, are not hurt, then rest assured that you are making a beginning with the business you have undertaken. For sheep, too, do not bring their fodder to the shepherds and show how much they have eaten, but they digest their food within them, and on the outside produce wool and milk. And so do you, therefore, make no display to the laymen of your philosophical principles, but let them see the results which come from these principles when digested."
Your comments on deeds are a welcome reminder that even small deeds matter. Every letter (or essay) written, every few encouraging words to a stranger, every few dollars offered, has the power make a difference in one,or more, person’s life. Put another way, saying “I can’t do anything about that” is, in most cases, inaccurate. Re Ethical Culture, “deed before creed” remains a virtuous aspiration, not necessarily a lived practice. Thinking pause. Is their a parallel Stoic motto/slogan?
https://www.gocomics.com/mike-du-jour
I like it! But rule 2 makes me wonder about the folks who intentionally misuse Stoicism to present an antithetical philosophy. Calling out these folks seems useful particularly to clarify for folks just starting their journey