Yes I get that and I maybe misunderstand the letter because elsewhere Seneca talks about how "night brings our troubles to light,don't suppose the soul is at peace and the body is at rest." Then again he was talking about finding a quiet place to study or not?🤔
Massimo in Seneca's letter on Quit and Study (LVI ) he makes reference to Ulysses' simple cure for his comrades against the song of the Sirens.Can you explain what he means and can I apply this to my practicing?
These thoughts cause anxiety for me.I am currently reading Seneca's letters ,maybe he has a remedy.It's really hard to ignore them,again practice practice practice
So where do these thoughts come from?They don't seem to be in our control, they just come.Epictetus says thoughts are in our control and now I am confused .
Massimo do these automatic thoughts have value judgement attached to them?Once we accept (acknowledge ?) them how do we let them pass?They seem to want to sit there and become more and more convoluted. Is this where our ability to reason should kick in to get rid of these thoughts?
My friend just picked up Massimo’s and Greg’s book for my collection at Barnes & Noble. My 🥕 carrot at the end of the stick to get to Long Island tonight!😊📚 https://www.mikekentrianakis.com/pigliucci_lopez/
I began the exercises in this book four years ago, just before the pandemic broke out. I only made it to the third exercise before I stopped trying. Since then I've tried practicing Stoicism in fits and starts, but I can't say I've made much progress. What discouraged me the first time around was this very idea of what is and isn't under our control. Allow me to provide an example. I have a son who is now 15 years old and he's been trying his luck at basketball the last five years. For reasons I won't get into, it meant very much to me that he'd make progress in the sport. (Leaving aside the question of whether it is reasonable for me to care much about such a.....preferred indifferent). At any rate, from the perspective of control, I had to think about what was up to me. And basically this amounted to my encouraging him, taking him to practice and games, giving him some advice to improve his game, and convincing my wife that basketball was worth his time. To make a long story short, we encountered a number of "externals" that inhibited my son's progress. Fine, I thought, those were beyond my control. But were they? It wasn't long before I started feeling guilt about not doing enough, like maybe personally coaching him more, finding a different team and coach to train him, maybe spending some money for private tutoring and things of that nature. But these ideas infringed on other considerations, like my peace of mind, my finances, the dilemma of whether changing his environment was a good thing etc. So while I made my peace with certain externals, I couldn't shake off the guilt that I wasn't "doing my best." Yet doing my best entailed making certain sacrifices, and of course nothing would have guaranteed any success even if I carried out such plans. This may be a trivial example, but I find myself in such situations and dilemmas regarding control. There's always a nagging sense of, am I really doing my best, along with do I really want to introduce so much upheaval in my life, and for things that are ultimately, from a Stoic perspective, indifferent? I hope I made my case clear.
I have read the book and enjoyed it very much. I'm keen to try these exercises again in this latest project.
One thing though.
I'm not sure I am thinking about the three disciplines in the correct way.
As an example.
I face the temptation to put money on a horse race. ( I don't actually gamble it's just by way of example).
The discipline of desire or aversion is me being tempted to gamble. I use the discipline of assent and think about it rationally and come to the conclusion that it's probably not a good idea to spend money I can't afford on a bet which I will probably lose.
I use the discipline of assent to decide not to place the bet. I do not assent to the bet if you like.
I use the discipline of action to avoid actually placing the bet.
Hope this makes sense.
Am I thinking about and using the three disciplines correctly or not?
If not can you give me some further guidance on this?
Massimo, I am featuring your work in my Stoicism Redux post this Friday, I am quoting from Massimo Pigliucci Feb 27 · Figs in Winter: New Stoicism and Beyond and your introductory post on the new work with Greg. I hope this is okay with you. It is my attempt to present Stoic leaders to my SMALL subscriber list. I do this every other week and yours will be the 6th. The off week I feature stories from my "average and ordinary" life. Please let me know if you have a concern. There are links to your work.
So revolutionary and so practical.....thank you.... I find myself appreciating more and more this fundamental rule of life..... brilliant....
Thank you Massimo,this will require time and effort and hard work,having you to turn to is priceless,thank you for what you do.
Back to the letters it is,hopefully elsewhere he will elaborate on how to quiet these hidden evils of the mind.
🙏
Yes I get that and I maybe misunderstand the letter because elsewhere Seneca talks about how "night brings our troubles to light,don't suppose the soul is at peace and the body is at rest." Then again he was talking about finding a quiet place to study or not?🤔
Massimo in Seneca's letter on Quit and Study (LVI ) he makes reference to Ulysses' simple cure for his comrades against the song of the Sirens.Can you explain what he means and can I apply this to my practicing?
These thoughts cause anxiety for me.I am currently reading Seneca's letters ,maybe he has a remedy.It's really hard to ignore them,again practice practice practice
🙏
So where do these thoughts come from?They don't seem to be in our control, they just come.Epictetus says thoughts are in our control and now I am confused .
Massimo do these automatic thoughts have value judgement attached to them?Once we accept (acknowledge ?) them how do we let them pass?They seem to want to sit there and become more and more convoluted. Is this where our ability to reason should kick in to get rid of these thoughts?
🙏
Be it ever that easy,something else to put on my practice list ; )
Massimo could you explain some more about what is meant by : things outside our concious mind.
My friend just picked up Massimo’s and Greg’s book for my collection at Barnes & Noble. My 🥕 carrot at the end of the stick to get to Long Island tonight!😊📚 https://www.mikekentrianakis.com/pigliucci_lopez/
Here you go.......https://rgolden.substack.com/p/stoicism-redux-d67
Your feedback is welcome. About this post and the Redux project.
Have a great weekend.
I began the exercises in this book four years ago, just before the pandemic broke out. I only made it to the third exercise before I stopped trying. Since then I've tried practicing Stoicism in fits and starts, but I can't say I've made much progress. What discouraged me the first time around was this very idea of what is and isn't under our control. Allow me to provide an example. I have a son who is now 15 years old and he's been trying his luck at basketball the last five years. For reasons I won't get into, it meant very much to me that he'd make progress in the sport. (Leaving aside the question of whether it is reasonable for me to care much about such a.....preferred indifferent). At any rate, from the perspective of control, I had to think about what was up to me. And basically this amounted to my encouraging him, taking him to practice and games, giving him some advice to improve his game, and convincing my wife that basketball was worth his time. To make a long story short, we encountered a number of "externals" that inhibited my son's progress. Fine, I thought, those were beyond my control. But were they? It wasn't long before I started feeling guilt about not doing enough, like maybe personally coaching him more, finding a different team and coach to train him, maybe spending some money for private tutoring and things of that nature. But these ideas infringed on other considerations, like my peace of mind, my finances, the dilemma of whether changing his environment was a good thing etc. So while I made my peace with certain externals, I couldn't shake off the guilt that I wasn't "doing my best." Yet doing my best entailed making certain sacrifices, and of course nothing would have guaranteed any success even if I carried out such plans. This may be a trivial example, but I find myself in such situations and dilemmas regarding control. There's always a nagging sense of, am I really doing my best, along with do I really want to introduce so much upheaval in my life, and for things that are ultimately, from a Stoic perspective, indifferent? I hope I made my case clear.
I have read the book and enjoyed it very much. I'm keen to try these exercises again in this latest project.
One thing though.
I'm not sure I am thinking about the three disciplines in the correct way.
As an example.
I face the temptation to put money on a horse race. ( I don't actually gamble it's just by way of example).
The discipline of desire or aversion is me being tempted to gamble. I use the discipline of assent and think about it rationally and come to the conclusion that it's probably not a good idea to spend money I can't afford on a bet which I will probably lose.
I use the discipline of assent to decide not to place the bet. I do not assent to the bet if you like.
I use the discipline of action to avoid actually placing the bet.
Hope this makes sense.
Am I thinking about and using the three disciplines correctly or not?
If not can you give me some further guidance on this?
Many thanks.
Massimo, I am featuring your work in my Stoicism Redux post this Friday, I am quoting from Massimo Pigliucci Feb 27 · Figs in Winter: New Stoicism and Beyond and your introductory post on the new work with Greg. I hope this is okay with you. It is my attempt to present Stoic leaders to my SMALL subscriber list. I do this every other week and yours will be the 6th. The off week I feature stories from my "average and ordinary" life. Please let me know if you have a concern. There are links to your work.